CdB Forum
CdB Whitewater Paddling Club Discussions => Paddling => Topic started by: waverider on January 11, 2011, 09:31:33 PM
-
If you'd paddle the Gatineau river last summer, you must haved notice that the put in at camping 193 has been shut down by the CPTAQ, Comit? Protrectrice des Territoires Agricoles du Qu?bec. You can not operate a business in an agricultural zonage for people that don't know. So because the owner was charging a fee to access the river on their property, the CPTAQ told the owner to close the access down or they would get a fine. I sended a letter to the CPTAQ
telling them how pissed off I was to see that us paddlers could not access the river from that point no more. They told me that they could reverse the decision on seeing that if there is an interest on the paddling community. They have responded to my letter on saying that I was the only one that has sended a letter in on telling them how I feel about theme closing the put in. If all the paddlers can e-mail the CPTAQ and saying how disappointed we are on seeing our access to the Gatineau river is close and that we want it back. They might issue a permit to the owners for accessing the river and the take out also.
The Bonnet Rouge is fighting for the past 12 years on having the rights to opperat a tourism attraction destination. If we don't do something about it, we will lose a beautifull place to camp and paddle. The Gatineau festival organisers are not
helping much. The Bonnet Rouge bought a property at the beginning of the spring 2010, because the access was closed down. You know what the Festival organizers did? They asked a farmer if they could us his property to access the river instead, what a bunch of fracking stupid assholes. There's a conflict between the Bonnet Rouge and the Gatineau Festival and this has to stop. The Bonnet Rouge does not charge the buses for the take out during the festival. I will be one damn fracking pissed off paddler if we loose access to the Bonnet Rouge and I'm surely not going to be the only one.
So here is the e-mail of the CPTAQ. info@cptaq.gouv.qc.ca We need to send theme as much e-mails as we can on telling theme how pissed off we are on loosing access to our rivers. Let's win back our access to our Gatineau River and other rivers to.
-
I'm going to email the authorities too. Thanks for sharing this and posting the email address. If you could repost this on boatwerks.net or even boatertalk.com, not sure about the Qu?bec WW sites but I'm sure Louis would know, you might get more people to help out. A form letter would be helpful too, that people could either use as is or modify.
Luck,
Paul
-
That's the cause worth fighting for Richard, but I don't want to fight windmills. Where can I find an official release from CPTAQ stating that they are shutting down the put-in? If one can't be found, perhaps you can post or attach a copy of the letter that they send you. I would like to refer to something concrete while expressing my objections/outrage.
Robert
-
hi
Thanks for the update. Aqua-adventure (sp?) on the Petite Nation had the same problem. There has been many reason out there why the Gatineau put-in was closed. I heard that the out-house was too close to the river or someone was worried about the river shore erosion. Not sure what causes more problems ... the cows in the pasture or humans in the out-house.
I agree with the other responses. The real reason for the closure has to be revealed. And a form letter of some sort created so people can copy and paste.
I will assume the communication with the CPTAQ was in french.
Richard: can you post the email/letter you sent, and the reply you received.
Larry
-
Hi Larry, Yes the letter I sended was in french. I could try to put it on the billboard but I'm not to good with computers.
If I can't I can always send it to you. I kind of lost the main respond letter from the CPTAQ. but I do have the first one they sended to my. French, english,spanish,german,italien what ever language, we need to send letters in.
Richard
-
Just tried to upload the letter I sended to the CPTAQ, it ain't working????? Does'nt let me upload that kind of file.
Richard
-
Hi everyone
Does it make sense to have this posted as a sticky while we sort out how to deal with it? Definitely an important issue. It'll make sure the max amount of members see it without having it move down the page.
Kelly
-
Just got in from school Kelly missed your call, but that does seems like a good idea! Going to bed...
:DPaul
-
---sticky now!
-
Allo Richard,
Here is the type of files and limitations regarding uploading files:
Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, mpg, pdf, png, txt, zip
Maximum attachment size allowed: 5000 KB, per post: 4
So, you should be able to load your file if it is an MS Word document.
Or maybe convert it to PDF, this is likely more compact.
TXT would be even smaller - would Save As and chose Text file type in MS Word.
LD in Montreal.
-
Had a busy week with work, family and my daughter's ringuette games. I still can't attach the letter from the cptaq??????Tried different attachements and methods. So I think I will have to e-mail it to someone in the club. The letter is in french. any volunteer's.
Richard
-
Salut Richard,
You can send it to me at dionnel666 at hotmail, I'll see if I can post it - being still an admin may help.
LD in Mtl
-
I will try to have a copy of the file records of the closure of the put-in, waiting on the response of the CPTAQ. We have to contest it in court I think. So let's send theme as much e-mails and letters as we can. I'm over a dozen right now!
Richard
-
Richard, you have more knowledge of the issue than I and I suspect others. Could you provide us with at least a copy of the letter you sent and of the address where to send it. I won't send it verbatim, but I need a structure to use to fill in the blanks, if you know what I mean...
Thanks,
Paul ;D
PS I'm sure other will use that letter, as a blank too.
-
Here is the letter that Richard received and just below, the text that he sent beforehand as well.
The text below is obviously in French - not quite the French Moli?re would expect though.
The reply from Suzie Lemieux follows.
LD
From: richardlacroix@bell.net
To: info@cptaq.gouv.qc.ca
Subject: sujet sur les rivi?res
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 23:29:45 -0800
Bonjour,
Je veux savoir c'est quoi le probl?me que vous barrez l'acc?s aux kayakist et canoteurs en fermant les sites de mise ? l'eau et sortie sur les terres agricole? C'est tu as cause du fait que les propri?taires de ces terres font quelque dollars en nous offrant acc?s ? ces cours d'eau par leur terre? Le fait d 'avoir un commerce sur une terre agricole? Au lieu de pousser vos crayons sur du papier avec vos lois stupides et niaisseuses, aller donc voir ce que vous enlever ? ces touristes incluant moi. Je suis tann? de voir presque ? toute les saisons d'eau vive, quil y a une autre acc?s qui a ?t? ferm? par vous autres. Au lieu d'?coeurer le peuple faite donc des exceptions pour ces endroits l?. Offrer leurs un permis pour op?rer un acc?s au kayakist et canoteurs. Pis toutes vos calise de barrage sur toute nos rivi?res, vous en mettez tu en masse du b?ton sur nos rivages!!!!!!! L'impact que toute ce ravage que vous faite pour produire de l'?nergie quand on a un surplus d'?lectricit?. Estie que le gouvernement ? pas de te t?te. J'en ferrais un m?nage dans vos bureaux moi. D?sol? pour le langage vulgaire ? plusieurs endroits mais je suis vraiment ?coeurer de tous ?a. Le f?d?ral a mis son nez dans les projets de barage sur la Romaine, le tout est arr?ter et je suis tr?s heureux pour ?a. Une bonne journ?e vous allez vous ramassez avec des centaines de pagayeurs ?i c'est pas plus avec leurs bateaux devant votre bureau. Vous avez ferm? l'acc?s ? ma rivi?re favorite qui est la rivi?re Gatineau dans la Haute Gatineau. Une autre rivi?re qui est menac? par deux barrages. Vous essayez de fermer la sortie de cette rivi?re aussi. Le Propri?taire de ce lieu se bat depuis plus de 10 ans maintenant. Au lieu de m?tre des b?tons dans les roues des petites entreprises, essayer donc de les aider ? la place. Me semble c'est pas dur d'?mettre un permis pour ces gens l? pour op?rer leur petite entreprise pendant 6 mois et vous avez un revenu envers ses endroits l?. Merci pour avoir lu mon message. J'aimerais avoir un retour de vos commentaires et d'en savoire plus sur les fermeture de tous ces acc?s et de sortie de nos rivi?res. Voici des photos de ce que nous risqu'on de perdre.
Richard Lacroix
richardlacroix@bell.ca
--Pi?ce jointe du message transmise--
From: suzie.lemieux@cptaq.gouv.qc.ca
To: richardlacroix@bell.net
Subject: Dossier 357241
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:58:07 -0500
Monsieur,
Veuillez trouver, ci-jointe, une lettre de Me Louise Mousseau, avocate, en r?ponse ? vos courriels des 8 et 9 novembre 2010.
Esp?rant le tout conforme.
Suzie Lemieux
Technicienne
Commission de protection du territoire agricole du Qu?bec (CPTAQ)
25, rue La Fayette, 3e ?tage
Longueuil (Qu?bec) J4K 5C7
( (450) 442-7114
? suzie.lemieux@cptaq.gouv.qc.ca
P Devez-vous vraiment imprimer ce courriel ? Si oui, pensez l?imprimer recto-verso!
Avis de confidentialit? : Les informations contenues dans les documents ci-joints sont de nature privil?gi?e et confidentielle. Elles ne peuvent ?tre utilis?es qu'aux fins convenues par la personne ou l'organisme dont le nom appara?t ci-dessus. Si la personne qui lit le pr?sent message n'est pas celle ? qui il est destin?, elle est pri?e de noter qu'il est strictement interdit de divulguer, de distribuer ou de copier ce message. Si ce message vous a ?t? transmis par m?garde, veuillez le d?truire et nous en aviser imm?diatement par courriel.
-
The reply Richard got is loosely translated here:
Sir,
The commission received your message related to the case 35241 and the decision taken by the Commission on that matter.
Note that you had the opportunity to contest those decisions in front of the Quebec Administrative Tribunal within the time frame prescribed by the Territory Protection and Agricultural Activities Law (L.R.Q., c. P-41.1).
No protestation was recorded.
It is still possible to put forward a new request if you believe that new facts leading to a different outcome should be considered.
Your message has been added to the file in question for future reference.
Thank you. Blablabla.
And she signed.
-
Merci Richard et Louis, ceci est un tr?s bon d?but et tr?s utile. Le Fran?ais est tr?s impressionnant dans son honn?tet?!
Paul :D
-
I sent an email yesterday and got a reply today. If you are going to send something I would recommend you also mention the bonnet rouge as their case is still open and is being investigated. You can perhaps also send a copy to the municipalities. The put in and take out are in two separate municipalities. The put-in is in D?l?age reception@deleage.ca and the Bonnet Rouge is in Ste-Th?r?se de la Gatineau info@ste-theresehg.ca
Basically they are saying that they forwarded my letter to the judicial center in longueil so they could add it to investigation file # 357241 (Bonnet-Rouge Rafting inc.). I've copied the email I received from them. Below their reply is the email I originally sent. Very loosely translated my message says: it's too bad you are preventing access to the river, the camping 193 provided a valuable service, eco-tourism should be encouraged, the Gatineau is a gem and valuable resource. Most of my email concerns camping 193 but I do have a paragraph at the end stating my support for the bonnet rouge's battle against the same situation.
M. Poulin,
Votre lettre d?appui au dossier d?enqu?te 357241 (Bonnet-Rouge Rafting inc.) ? ?t? transmise au service juridique de Longueuil.
Cordialement,
______________________________
Johanne Turcotte
Service de l'information
Commission de protection
du territoire agricole du Qu?bec
200, chemin Sainte-Foy, 2e ?tage
Qu?bec QC G1R 4X6
418.643.3314
1 800.667.5294
T?l?c.: 418.643.2261
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Cl?o Poulin [mailto:cleo_lp@yahoo.ca]
Envoy? : 24 janvier 2011 14:46
? : info@cptaq.gouv.qc.ca
Cc : reception@deleage.ca; info@ste-theresehg.ca
Objet :
Bonjour
Je vous ?cris concernant la fermeture du camping 193 sur la rue Godin a D?l?age. Ce site donnais acc?s au amateurs d'eau vive a la merveilleuse rivi?re Gatineau. D?apr?s ce que j'ai crue comprendre ce site a ?t? forc? a fermer ses porte puisque le terrain est zon? agricole. Quelle perte pour la communat? de canoe et de kayak d'eau vive! Des gens vienne de partout au monde pour profiter de l'eau vive de la rivi?re Gatineau. En 2009 les ?quipes national de freestyle du Canada, des ?tats-Unis et de la France on profiter de la rapid Haute-Tension pour s?entra?ner. Vous avez ici une resource qui attirent plus d'un milliers de personne dans la municipalit? de D?l?age annuelement. Dans le climat ?conomique actuelle il est ridicule de ne pas capitaliser sur la nouvelle source de revenue que pr?sente l'?cotourisme. Pour la somme modique de 3$ la propri?taire du camping nous offrais un endroit s?curitaire pour stationner nos voitures, un sourire accueillant et nous disais toujours avant chaque d?scente: "Amusez-vous bien sur notre belle Gatineau et surtout soyez prudent!". Elle ne faisais pas une fortune de sa petite entreprise mais elle offrait un service appr?ci? de tout la communaut? d'eau vive avec un amour claire de sa rivi?re Gatineau. N'ayant pas les ressources ou l'?nergie de combattre l'ordre de fermeture cette dame a fermer ses portes. Quel dommage!
Je crois comprendre que le site du Bonnet-Rouge au 215 ch. Rivi?re Gatineau a Ste-Th?r?se de la Gatineau fais face au m?me probl?me. J'ai crue comprendre qu'ils ont entrepris des d?marches pour contester la d?cision prise a leur ?gard. J'aimerais que vous preniez note de mon appuis a ces d?marche.
Je crois qu'il est dans l?int?r?t de tous de trouver une solution pour que le public ai de nouveau acc?s a ces deux sites. Que ce soit un changement de zonage ou une exceptions au r?glement qui g?re les terres agricoles. La rivi?re Gatineau est une ressource beaucoup trop pr?cieuse pour qu'on y perdent acc?s. J'ai inclus ici quelque liens vers des vid?os youtube de la rivi?re pour vous faire connaitre le joyau auquel vous nous priv? l?acc?s, vous faire connaitre un peu notre sport et vous divertir un peu.
Voici quelque membre des ?quipes national Canadienne et Am?ricaine en action sur la vague du transformateur dans la rapide haute-tension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7HfqsEKSnE&feature=related
Un clip du Festival d'eau vive de la Haute-Gatineau 2010. Ce n'est pas seulement les pro du kayak qui profitent de la Gatineau plusieurs centaines de personnes ordinaire descende la rivi?re lors de la fin de semaine du festival.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6rUu317reM
Les municipalit?s de D?l?age et de Ste-Th?r?se de la Gatineau on aussi re?u une copie de ce courriel. J'aimerais si possible ?tre tenue au courant de mise a jours future dans ce dossier.
Merci
Cl?o Poulin
-
Goog job Cl?o. Let's see what we can do as a club... Any suggestions? --C.
-
Merci Cl?o,
Just sent my messages to both sites!
Paul ;D
-
Hey All,
Is there any way we can collectively sign a letter on behalf of CDB? For example, state that our XX number of members believe in the issues Cleo mentioned?
I am bit challenged by written French, but I want to help save the Gat and Bonnet Rouge.
Sandra
-
A response to one of the letters Richard had sent.
attachment
Larry
-
A response to one of the letters Richard had sent.
attachment
Larry
In case you got confused, it is the same attachment as the one hiding as an attachment in my post #14 in this thread.
LD
-
Here is my letter in French, which I adapted from Cl?o's letter (Thanks Cl?o!).
Bonjour
Je vous ?cris concernant la fermeture du camping 193 sur la rue Godin a D?l?age. Ce site donne acc?s au amateurs d'eau vive ? la merveilleuse rivi?re Gatineau. Je comprend que ce site a ?t? forc? ? fermer ses portes, puisque le terrain est zon? agricole. Quelle perte ?norme!!!! pour la communat? du canoe et du kayak d'eau vive! Les gens viennent de partout au monde!!! pour profiter de l'eau vive de la rivi?re Gatineau!!!
En 2009 les ?quipes national de freestyle du Canada, des ?tats-Unis et de la France ont profit? de la section de la rivi?re Gatineau nomm?e le rapide de la Haute-Tension pour s?entra?ner.
Vous avez ici une resource qui attire plus d'un milliers de personne par saison d??t? dans la municipalit? de D?l?age, dont Maniwaki. Dans le climat ?conomique actuelle il est riddicule de ne pas capitaliser sur la nouvelle source de revenue que pr?sente l'?cotourisme. Pour la somme modique de 3$ la propri?taire du camping nous offrais un endroit s?curitaire et acceuillant pour stationner nos voitures, un sourire accueillant et nous disait toujours avant chaque d?scente: "Amusez-vous bien sur notre belle Gatineau et surtout soyez prudent!". Elle ne faisait pas une fortune de sa petite enterprise, mais elle offrait un service tr?s, tr?s appr?ci? de tout la communaut? d'eau vive avec un amour clair de la rivi?re Gatineau. N'ayant pas les ressources ou l'?nergie de combattre l'ordre de fermeture cette dame a donc ferm? ses portes. Quel ?norme, ?norme dommage!
Je crois comprendre que le site du Bonnet-Rouge au 215 ch. Rivi?re Gatineau a Ste-Th?r?se de la Gatineau fait maintenant face au m?me probl?me. J'ai crue comprendre qu'ils ont entrepris des d?marches pour contester la d?cision prise a leur ?gard. J'aimerais que vous preniez note de mon appuis total ? l'?gard de ces d?marches.
Je crois qu'il est dans l?int?r?t de tous de trouver une solution afin que le public puisse avoir de nouveau l'acc?s ? ces deux sites.
Que ce soit un changement de zonage ou une exceptions aux r?glements qui g?rent les terres agricoles. La rivi?re Gatineau est une ressource beaucoup trop pr?cieuse pour qu'on y perdent l'acc?s.
En passant. nous les Coureurs de Bois, sommes un club de pagaieyage et de plein air qui utilisait le site du Bonnet Rouge plusieurs fois par ann?e, au moin 4 fois l?ann?e derni?re, et qui comprend plus de 100 membres qui d?pensaient beaucoup d?argent? ? Maniwaki et ne d?penseront plus un seul sous, maintenant que la rivi?re Gatineau est barr?e par vous!!! Et de plus, nous ne sommes qu'un parmis plusieurs autres clubs qui utlisent, oupsss, utilisaient... les ressouces de la rivi?re Gatineau et renflouaient l'?conomie locale, plus maintenant, domage pour tous les int?ress?s... puisque ceci ne sempble pas vous pr?ocupper.
S?il-vous-plait redonnez l?acc?ss aux canoeistes et aux kayakistes!
Paul Potvin
Membre du conseil executif du Club de pagaieyage Coureurs de Bois, ? Ottawa, Ontario.
-
Bonjour Paul,
J'aime mieux ton projet de lettre mais il me manque quelquechose d'important que je retrouve pas dans les ?changes et c'est..... d'ou viens le probl?me...
Je suis aller lire la d?cision 353645 et l'ordonnance 357241 que j'annexe si ca marche!
Selon ce que je note et dite moi si vous avez de l'info diff?rente..
Bonnet Rouge a demand? une permission de 42 hectare pour faire une hotel restaurant etc... dans la zone agricole prot?g?e qui a ?t? revis?e ? la baisse ? 7 ha
La CPTAQ a ACCEPT?e 1,32 ha pour des motifs qui sont expliqu? dans le jugement
L'entreprise a pas respect?e la d?cision et recoit une ordonnance 357241
La CPTAQ nous dis que l'ordonnance est pas contest?e..........ce qui veut dire que Bonet Rouge reconnait sa faute!
Je comprends pas notre implication ? cette ?tape!
Daniel
-
voici l'ordonnance!
Daniel
-
I would suggest Christian or others of our French speaking confreres in the Club to follow up with Federation Canot e Kayak Quebec (FCKQ)who originally started the Festival to promote access to the river and preserve its recreatioanal value to make them aware and hopefully have them involved. Having a Quebec based organization with province-wide membership in Quebec, past experience successfully organizing the river festival over many years, local contacts and credibility, advocating and lobbying will bring more weight to the cause than individual letters and be more persuasive with Quebec decision makers than having what would be seen primarily as Ontario Club (knowing full well that we have members based in Quebec as well) trying to influence change. Perception matters. If you can't get FCKQ interested (who ought to be) then you have a pretty good how well you will fare with bureaucrats.
-
Je suis aller lire la d?cision 353645 et l'ordonnance 357241 que j'annexe si ca marche!
Selon ce que je note et dite moi si vous avez de l'info diff?rente..
Bonnet Rouge a demand? une permission de 42 hectare pour faire une hotel restaurant etc... dans la zone agricole prot?g?e qui a ?t? revis?e ? la baisse ? 7 ha. La CPTAQ a ACCEPT?e 1,32 ha pour des motifs qui sont expliqu? dans le jugement
L'entreprise a pas respect?e la d?cision et recoit une ordonnance 357241
La CPTAQ nous dis que l'ordonnance est pas contest?e..........ce qui veut dire que Bonet Rouge reconnait sa faute!
Je comprends pas notre implication ? cette ?tape!
Daniel
Here is what I got from reading the decision 353645 and order 357241. Thanks for including them, BTW.
The local municipalities are hoping to define a 13km corridor to push for the use of the Gatineau river for eco-touristic acitivities like hiking, biking and river activities. Bonnet Rouge wanted to expand big time. CPTAQ said:"Don't push it." Bonnet Rouge dropped the demand back to what she is using now at 7 ha. CPTAQ said:"You are still pushing too much." and agreed to 1.32 ha for only the road to get to the shore and a parking lot next to the river. The river access is not their jurisdiction.
This means Bonnet Rouge would have to scale back, get rid of most of the infrastructure in place. And we would loose the camping site.
That would make it difficult to run a white water operation/rafting company from there. And we would likely have to find another place to sleep during our weekend long outing.
CPTAQ is not looking to eliminate the activities going on, but does not seem to get what this place provides and the usefulness of those services at that location.
I got the feeling CPTAQ was hinting to move those infrastructures to the lightly loaded municipality area downstream outside of the agricultural area.
BTW, I'll talk to Julie Crepeau. She is the FCKQ general director. See what she knows and what is their position.
LD
-
Louis
Plus facile pour moi d'?crire en francais..
Dans la r?ponse, la CPTAQ indique que deux options sont possibles soit constester au tribunal administratif du qc(un peu comme la commission municipale en Ontario) ou faire une nouvelle demande.
Nouvelle demande:
Je sais pas o? on commencer les ?changes. Qui a demander notre intervention?
Je viens de discuter avec mme Isabelle de Bonnet Rouge pour savoir si une nouvelle demande est faite. Elle m'indique que Mme Johanne Lachapelle en pr?pare une pour elle et elle pense pas que la demande est arriv?e ? la CPTAQ....
Je sais pas si on aide vraiment en ?crivant ? la CPTAQ ? cette ?tape.
Normalement un club devrait faire une lettre d'appuie adress?e au promoteur d'un projet...
Normalement un promoteur demande d'avoir une lettre d'appui.
Je suis Vice-pr?sident d'un club de canot et personne me demande de lettre d'appui.
p.s. c'est bien personnel ? moi mais on peu aider mais le promoteur est en premi?re ligne
Daniel
-
hi
What was Bonnet Rouge like before it was Bonnet Rouge? .... an empty plot of land with nothing. We would paddle by that section and sometimes ask the owner if we could access the land, but the answer was always no. That was around 1995.
Eventually they did provide access. The access road sucked. To the right as you drove down there was a hay field and most of the section where we camp now was also a hay field. Every so often, when it was necessary the fields would be cut ... and baled. There was small mobile home used as a base for the owners.
I had no idea Isabelle want to expand to such a grand scale. It's either go big or go home. I doubt she would remain in business if she were only allowed a road and parking.
There's is no money to be made in agriculture these days, unless she started a grow-up operation. Wouldn't that be agriculture at its best.
193 Godin used to be set up in the same manner. A strip of land for cars to park while the rest of the land was used for growing hay. I guess it wasn't worth the effort and cost to grow such a small hay field.
Larry
-
Hi Larry,
If the Bonnet Rouge is closed, I'm just saying..., where did you guys put in and take out before and do you think we could still do that now?
Paul
PS I am very confused as to why the Qu?bec paddling clubs are not involved in this... It's in their back yard afterall
-
I did not know that Bonnet Rouge wanted to expand that big, I think Isabelle might have pocked herself in the eye!! But, I still say those bureaucrats should let her operate her take out and camping same for camping 193. They give permits to build damns on our rivers, gas and oil drilling permits, mine permits........ and they screws up wildlife and put our health in danger in the process and they want to shut down a small tourist attraction place, go figure what's wrong here????? I think if we do this together we will accomplish something. Every member in the club as some knowledge for doing something or knows somebody that can help on trying to keep the access to the Gatineau River open. We have to get as much clubs implicated has we can. We can win our access back. We have to do something otherwise nobody will. Thank's to all who responded on this subject and lets work on this together.
P.S. The french letter I sended to the CPTAQ, I was nice and holding back!!! ;D
Richard
-
I send a email to Isabelle (Bonnet Rouge) to offer support (from Radisson canoe club.. because i am on the 'board' Conseil d,administration) if the want to!!
and if the timing is good for them. I also ask what is the area the ask to regularize their file and i am waiting
let you know!
Daniel the ... agronome and a ex farmer.. :)
-
Super Daniel et merci beaucoup. Louis, qu'est-ce qu'a dit Julie Crepeau?
Paul