Topic: Pushbutton/Garb road closed for the season

[Todd]

For what its worth, I walked in yesterday in 12 minutes with boat.  I am still recovering from a knee surgery in June.  The walk is insignificant and a great chance to enjoy the fall colors. 

[Paul Potvin]

Wow, You can use this road now? I didn't even know it existed!

Paul

[JohnCyr]

Not poiting fingers at anyone on this board necessarily...
But I really honestly dont see why the hell people are complaining about this 

Here:

As you all know, the gate has been locked taking away Park and play access for paddlers at the Lorne rapid. For those of you who haven't heard, Wilderness Tours is planning to open a restaurant, retail outlet and camp grounds providing river access to garb and push button over the next year or so at the Barn just behind the WT's "Farmhouse" B&B accomodation. At this point in time, we have a road that will put you in the large river right eddy just agove Butcher's Knife with a short paddle over to push button or just walk up to Garb.
We'd also just to remind everyone to pickup after yourselves as you will be walking through some of the last wild sections on the Ottawa. If we can all work together, we can preserve and keep the Ottawa looking spectacular. Thank you.

Hope to see everyone on the river!!

Wilderness Tours Staff
wildernesstours

Heres a MAP:
-Yellow line is the "IN SEASON ROAD"
-RRed line is the "OFF SEASON ROAD"
-Blue dots are the 3 main playspots, GArb, Buseater, Pushbutton

[JohnCyr]

hi

Let me try to understand this issue better.
Prior to 2007 that access road was never opened to the public.
In 2007, OWL decided to open year round the access road to the public ... fishermen,phototographers, family outings, friends of paddlers and paddlers.
In 2011 OWL decided to limit road access once they shut down their rafting business for the season.
In 2012 the gate will open the May Long weekend for the season and again shut down in the Fall of 2012.

And those who want to complain or whine will do so. Why?

Sure it's easy to say, "I will pay". How about provide a solution via Whitewater Ontario on how OWL will enforce it, collect money, ensure users have paid, and deny access to the non-paid public, all during the off season when there is no OWL staff around.
   
If it were my land ... my response would be: "suck it up, there is another access available to that location if you were to get off your lazy butt and ask around"

Larry

This may be somewhat naive but here it goes.  If we have significant membership interested in this access being available during off season that causes these companies monetary problems then why don't we identify the cost and compensate them?  I would be willing to pay to keep the access open.  Continuing to consume without return does put us in a strong bargining position.

I agree,,,There are actually 2 other access close by...near Butchers knife and another one that I am not allowed saying where...Id also rather not as I dont want to have these access taken away as well! :p

[rgplouffe819]

Not suggesting any enforcement.  Suggesting that if enough club members are interested in keeping road open that we provide company with compensation and have them provide a key to the club to allow opening of gate.  For example road maintenance for season cost $500.  Club members, say numbering 50, pay $5 extra on dues and pay owl $250 for offseason access.  Maybe for a donation it is again left open to the public .... Open a dialog with company and see how it turns out.

If access is that important then paying for it is an option.

[Larry W]

hi

Let me try to understand this issue better.
Prior to 2007 that access road was never opened to the public.
In 2007, OWL decided to open year round the access road to the public ... fishermen,phototographers, family outings, friends of paddlers and paddlers.
In 2011 OWL decided to limit road access once they shut down their rafting business for the season.
In 2012 the gate will open the May Long weekend for the season and again shut down in the Fall of 2012.

And those who want to complain or whine will do so. Why?

Sure it's easy to say, "I will pay". How about provide a solution via Whitewater Ontario on how OWL will enforce it, collect money, ensure users have paid, and deny access to the non-paid public, all during the off season when there is no OWL staff around.
   
If it were my land ... my response would be: "suck it up, there is another access available to that location if you were to get off your lazy butt and ask around"

Larry

This may be somewhat naive but here it goes.  If we have significant membership interested in this access being available during off season that causes these companies monetary problems then why don't we identify the cost and compensate them?  I would be willing to pay to keep the access open.  Continuing to consume without return does put us in a strong bargining position.

[ChristianG]

This had once been negociated. The problem is enforcement...

[rgplouffe819]

This may be somewhat naive but here it goes.  If we have significant membership interested in this access being available during off season that causes these companies monetary problems then why don't we identify the cost and compensate them?  I would be willing to pay to keep the access open.  Continuing to consume without return does put us in a strong bargining position.

[Jim Swabey]

Thanks Larry,

You answered my question, it was a business decision.

[Larry W]

OK ... running the river is not the issue. It never was in this thread.

"Rafting companies don't want paddlers to have 'easy' access to this location"
Wrong. Both Dirk and Claudia of OWL rafting are both river access advocates providing easy and free access to the Ottawa River. To lump them in a general statement such as that is a disservice to the company.

"the road could remain open until the weather got bad"
Yes it could be, but it is a business decision and a certain date was chosen. In fact Fall officially starts this Friday. I don't think OWL is running raft trips anymore ... at least we didn't see them on the river this past Saturday.

"the issue is the sudden closure"
Is it really sudden? In 2007 when the "easy" access was opened, was there a big ribbon cutting ceremony and public announcement? No, the access was spread word of mouth and through forums such as this one. It only took OWL rafting about 4 years to figure out that most of damage to the road occurs during the shoulder seasons. The bottom line on the account sheet which includes road repair is the determining factor. OWL really doesn't have to announce anything. Remember it is their road.

"I would gladly pay something"
As most people would or maybe 50% if it were done on the honour system. Not as easy to enforce as per comments in the http://www.boatwerks.net/boater-board/1/11693 thread. The access road is for the public on a 24/7 basis .... which includes any Tom, Dick or Harry paddler or non-paddler.

Larry W

[Jim Swabey]

The issue here is about park & play, not running the river. If people have a problem with P & P that's a different issue.  I used the wrong words when I said "free access", sorry I really should have said "easy access". I have always payed access fees to land owners when requested and I am extremely thankfull that they allow us paddlers to use their land.  Back in the early 70's we would always collect money and give it to Mervin Black for access across his land (blacks takeout). This was before any rafting companies had started on the Ottawa.

The issue is why the sudden closing of the road! I would gladly pay a user fee if that's the issue.

[Larry W]

The only public access points are the boat launch at LaPasse, the right of way at the Little Picky Cabin and the right of way on the road in to OWL. The Put in and lower lake right of ways do not have parking. That is why OWL/MKC leased and then purchased property at the put in and has provided parking and access free of charge as a responsibility they take on as paddlers. The Blacks takeout rd is private and Farmer Black used to keep a donation box out. He periodically closed the road due to the lack of donations being made by paddlers. The road is now controlled by WT and they provide access free of charge. River Run provides takeout access for a fee.
The Lorne rd is owned by OWL and WT and Riverrun have a right of way to access their lunch sites. OWL opened the Lorne rd for public access against the wishes of WT and Riverrun and have been incurring significant expenses to maintain it. The other companies have refused to chip in to cover these costs. Most of the damage is done in the late fall and early spring when the road is soft.
The Lorne rd has been closed for public access until the official beginning of the season, the Victoria Day weekend.

Dirk is willing to keep the road open, but is no longer willing to foot the cost of the damage being done in the off season, but he is open to working with us to keep the road open if we can come up with a way of covering these costs.

The Lorne access road is on the agenda of the Whitewater Ontario Access Committee meeting this Thursday evening.

Reference: http://www.boatwerks.net/boater-board/1/11693?p=56617#p56617

Now the ball is in your court if you want the access road to stay open in the shoulder seasons ie. early Spring or late Fall.

Larry W

[KellyM]

Wilderness Tours' reply on Boatwerks:

"As you all know, the gate has been locked taking away Park and play access for paddlers at the Lorne rapid. For those of you who haven't heard, Wilderness Tours is planning to open a restaurant, retail outlet and camp grounds providing river access to garb and push button over the next year or so at the Barn just behind the WT's "Farmhouse" B&B accomodation. At this point in time, we have a road that will put you in the large river right eddy just agove Butcher's Knife with a short paddle over to push button or just walk up to Garb.

We'd also just to remind everyone to pickup after yourselves as you will be walking through some of the last wild sections on the Ottawa. If we can all work together, we can preserve and keep the Ottawa looking spectacular. Thank you.

Hope to see everyone on the river!!

Wilderness Tours Staff"

[Larry W]

Hi

Don't agree to what?
How much have you paid at the OWL putin?
How much have you paid at the WT take out downstream of Farmer Black's?

Answer zero ... since at those two locations the rafting companies provide free access.

Suck it up.
Park-walk-play
Or paddle the whole dam river.

Or better yet ... Call up OWL management and plead your case that the gate should be left open for public access.

end Rant

Larry

Sorry, don't agree! The rafting companies simply do not want paddlers to have free access to park&play at this location. The road is in great shape and the gate could be closed when the weather turns bad!

[Jim Swabey]

Sorry, don't agree! The rafting companies simply do not want paddlers to have free access to park&play at this location. The road is in great shape and the gate could be closed when the weather turns bad!